Assuming you are who you say you are, a native speaker more or less knowledgeable in matters of the English language,
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allow me to pose this question for you.
이 문장이 원어민의 귀에 문법적으로 들립니까? 비문법적으로 들립니까?
논리적으로 정당한 사고를 담고 있다고 보십니까? 논리적으로 무리한 사고를 담고 있다고 보십니까?
"He becomes a millionaire, so he has more worries."
I already know the answer, but I would appreciate hearing it from you.
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regua : Since I already got your answer as to the grammar and logic of the sentence, with which you find no objection as a native speaker of the English language, let me add this little tidbit.
The present tense is a popular verb tenses employed in the narrative time in English literature.
The verb become is no exception, and why should it be unless there existed an inherent problem with grammar or diction regarding the verb become?
Anyways, this little question of grammaticality and logic regarding the verb become regards some one's claim that the validity of
my thesis could be evaluated by examining the grammar and logic of the following sentence :
"If I did not become a millionaire, I would have fewer problems."
My antagonist's claim (not mine):
see 제 목 did not become이 답이 되지 않는 이유. 증명
이 름 가정법판단조회수34 http://gall.dcinside.com/English/193426
"(quote) 가정법 시제가 제대로 쓰여져있는지 판단하기 위해서
가정하고 있는 것과 반대되는 사실 명제가 제대로 되는지를 보면 가정법 문장이 비문인지 알 수 있겠네요.
*문제가 되는 가정법 문장* If he _____________ a millionaire, he would have fewer problems
-빈칸의 답을 헌차사자님은 did not become이라고 하셨습니다.
그렇게 되면 If절, 주절 모두 가정법 과거로 "아름다운"대칭 관계를 형성한다고 하셨네요.
-헌차사자님의 답에 따르면 문장은 If he did not become a millonaire(가정법과거), he would have fewer worries(가정법과거) 가 되겠네요.
-단순한 상상력을 표현한 가정법과 달리 지금 문장에는 반대되는 (그는 백만장자이고 걱정이 많다.)라는 사실이 분명히 존재하네요.
가정법 과거이기 때문에 현재시제를 사용해서 영어문장으로 써보면 이렇게 되겠네요.
he becomes a millonaire, SO he has not a few worries.
이 명제는 논리적으로 문제가 없을까요? (end of quote)"
My antagonist claims that this can be translated into the indicative mood: (my comment: Surely some information would be lost, but that cannot be helped)
"He becomes a millionaire, so he has more worries."
Thank you again for your highly informative response.
Cheers, Mr Regua
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I understand your frustration; not knowing where all this is going is surely not something I myself feel comfortable with.
It basically stems from the following corollary posts, where someone constructs the said sentence claiming the sample sentence in question "He becomes a millionaire, so he has more worries" is ungrammatical and/or illogical, with which I tend to disagree.
"헌차사자의 did not become이 답이 되지 않는 이유. 증명" [35] 가정법판단 http://gall.dcinside.com/English/193426
"근데 become을 현재형으로 쓰는 경우가 있음?" [11] 싼피오너 http://gall.dcinside.com/English/193467
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As for what the sentences in question would ultimately mean, I would rather not decide until the grammatical possibilities have been exhausted.
Once the range of possible constructions has been reduced, then we may safely proceed with giving, finding, or assigning meaning to the sentence(s) in true-to-life contexts for the small number of possible structures that survived the test of grammatical & logical restraints.
If the subjunctive question had been excerpted from a work of literature or something printed, that would have been ideal for coming to a decision as to what purpose the original sentence might have served.
Unfortunately I have failed to find one yet. So here we are, stuck in the virtual world of what sounds like a hypothetical subjunctive utterance uttered by a maybe-millionaire Mr Gallagher, or Mr Smith by some.
Unless utterly confused by the absence of a tangible context to give enough meaning to the unrevealed utterance eventually, let only sound reason, grammar, and logic be our guides through the dim tunnel of what might turn out a linguistic ambiguity.
논리적으로 적당한....
결국 본인이 코웃음치던 원어민에게 도움을 요청하는 꼴이라니... 쯧쯧
결국 본인의 능력으로 해결하지도 못하면서 큰소리 떵떵치면서 너네들은 책을 안읽어서 이해를 못한다는 둥
노출이적으니 우물안 개구리라는 둥
원어민도 원어민 나름이지 본인이 웬만한 원어민보다 노출이 많다는 둥
결국에는 원어민에게 문법성을 확인받으려고 하는구나. 불쌍하다.
난 이만 자야해서. 네가 새벽동안 어떤 썰을 풀어놓을까 기대하며 잠자도록 할게. 부디 재밌는 글 많이 써 놓길^^
아아 아름다운 논리는 온데간데 없고 이제 네이티브의 판결만이 남아있군요
진짜 지가 했던 말을 싹 바꾸는 애들은 존나 답이 없어. 인터넷상이든 현실에서든 겪어보면 참 난감한 처세술
ㄴ: Using \"became\" is definitely more natural here, but it changes the meaning of the sentence (the first part is in the past instead of the present). Instead, use present perfect like I did above to keep both parts (roughly) in the present and be as close to the intended meaning as possible.
결국 현재시제가 그런식으로 쓰지 않는다는 영국 원어민의 답변이네
ddd - 그러게나 말임. 쉽게 답이 나온 문제를 본인 좀 튀어보겠다고 다른 설명 끌어들이다가 자기도 논리가 안 세워지니 원어민보다 노출이 많녜 어쩌녜 꼴값을 떨다가 종국에는 원어민에게 자문을 구하고 비웃음만 사고 있네^^
So you find no problem with either its grammar or logic. That\'s all I needed to know. Thank you, regua, for you most informative response. Cheers
결국 또 지 꼴리는대로 정보를 왜곡해서 위안삼는구나.
The problem is that something can be perfectly grammatical but still unnatural (even to the point of being hard to understand in certain cases) for English speakers. I know that most of the people here are focused on English language exams, though, so with that in mind I can say that yes, it is a correct sentence, but its use might be heavily context-dependent.
하하하하ㅏㅎㅎ하하하하하하하히하ㅣㅎ하하하하핳
In a conversation, I don\'t really particularly pay attention to grammar of the other person,but since you brought it up, I examined the executions of your sentences and I found a number of errors in them. It\'s not a bad idea to focus on the accuracy of your language, but better not develop an obsession with it. It will only hamper your learning.
To the Chinese English learner.
측은할 정도구나
for you most informative response -> Thank you for your informative response.
how do you think? -> What do you think of it?
한국어는 한국어대로 영어는 영어대로 교정을 받으니 모국어인 중국어는 잘하겠지
그래도 영갤의 보물 헌차님 홧팅!!
홧팅!
신경쓰지 마세요. 보석은 알아보는 사람은 다 알아봅니다.
軒車使者: I\'ve just noticed the bit you added to the original question. It would be MUCH easier for me and you to reach some form of agreement about these sentences if you specified what you actually want them to mean and how you want to use them.
청양딕도 홧팅!
뭐 여기 돌아가며 홧팅 하는 분위기임?-- 싸워싸워~! regua 님도 홧팅! 청양딕 님과 oo 님도 홧팅! We need to stay hungry and stay foolish to win this \'asoc football\' match.
...sentence that the whole discussion stems from. Additionally, many English speakers are scared of past perfect for some reason, so in the 3rd conditional it sometimes gets reduced to past simple. It\'s might not be \"correct\" grammar according to some books, but that\'s simply because they haven\'t recorded this usage yet.
So if you want more information as to where he\'s headed with his construction, perhaps you could ask him. See I\'m only trying to help the guy to see his own truth, as a midwife helping the mother give birth to her child. I already gave my grammatical/logcial assessment, and now we have yours. No problem with grammar and logic, so his thesis lost support. Unnaturalness is something else than gramm
ar and logic, and I don\'t know what he or you are getting at with usage that isn\'t even close to what Mr Gallagher said in his interview the previous night, the subjunctive fragment of which is of a different mood construction from the indicative.
헌차가 영어로 까불다 걸레가 되다니 ㅎㄷ
ddd님 헌차평소영어도그리문법오류가많습니까??
Ah, fair enough, I missed the part where this wasn\'t actually your idea. Well then, I guess I have no other issues with anything you said about the sentences.
At this point it\'s just arguing about the semantics of an ambiguous (and annoying!) English construct. Let\'s just leave it here, shall we?
Sure, thanks for all the hard work for the sake of grammatical accuracy (and of course including other virtues). I appreciate your contribution that will hopefully help to restore the grammatical standards on the board that literally went berserk recently.
Haha, I\'m not sure if even the English websites about English are any better in this regard... People just like arguing about stuff, I guess.